Peter Black NGNuk
Rod Smith NGNuk
Peter Ryde NGNuk
Mark Dalziel NGNuk
Andy May (CW)
Angus Flett (BT)
Phil Male (Thus)
Neil McArthur (CPW)
Marcus Webb (Vodafone)
Stuart Shutt (Orange)
Ben Phillips (Sky / Easynet)
Marina Gibbs (Ofcom)
Gareth Davies (Ofcom)
Apologies; Robyn Durie ( T Mobile), Andy King (Virgin Media)
The minutes and actions of the last meeting were approved
Rod Smith provided an introduction to the session. At the last NGNuk Exec there had been discussion about the ongoing role of NGNuk. There had been strong feedback from members that it should continue as a forum where senior industry representatives could debate and review key issues. Such a body would only be useful and effective if, following such review, the Secretariat carried forward the output to brief and inform those organisations who were likely to be affected. In discussing this remit with senior members of Ofcom it was highlighted that Ofcom were considering a further NGN consultation during 2008. In this context it was felt appropriate to invite Ofcom to attend the Executive to outline their objectives for the consultation and for the Exec to feedback on issues they feel Ofcom might wish to include in the consultation. It was recognised that whilst the Exec could offer its opinion, that Ofcom could reject such advice and that NGNuk was in no way involved in the setting of policy.
Gareth Davies from the Competition group represented Ofcom.
Ofcom last consulted on NGNs in 2005 and it now considered it important to update this work. There were two key objectives for the consultation, these being an understanding of:
The project within Ofcom is split into a number of sub-elements with the project overall looking at both the short term imperatives and the longer term issues. The sub elements are:
There was some discussion within the Exec of how broad the competition review would be. Gareth indicated that whilst the review covered all areas affected by NGNs (such as the relationship between fixed and mobile markets) Ofcom would seek to prioritise the development of principles that could be consistently applied across all areas but would focus in on a few priority areas such as voice. In addition it was stressed that the aim was not to duplicate existing work, rather to help draw these separate strands of work together.
There was some discussion over the potential to focus too heavily on 21CN migration issues given the ongoing presence of LLU operators (where customers had effectively migrated to an NGN). It was also recognised by the Exec that consumers would be impacted for several years because of both the mix of TDM and IP across networks and also the relative immaturity of IP technology in this market.
There were several areas of questioning and discussion:
Gareth led a discussion on how best to seek industry input. It was accepted by the Exec that it was highly unlikely within NGNuk to reach consensus on many issues that would be discussed however they felt it important that the views and concerns of industry, be they general or specific, regarding the consultation be captured to inform Ofcom's considerations. Ofcom stated it is already in discussions with BT and UKCTA regarding the consultation.
In terms of the way forward the following was agreed:
1. Ofcom will be asked to attend the Exec meetings, as appropriate, to provide an update to the Exec on progress. In addition where appropriate Ofcom will provide specific questions where it seeks the views and feedback of the NGNuk Exec
Action 1 - 13/03/2008: Peter Ryde to liaise with Ofcom to schedule attendance, as appropriate, to provide feedback on the progress of the NGN consultation to the Exec.
2. The Secretariat should provide a base set of questions to the Executive covering suggested areas where the Exec may wish to provide more detailed feedback regarding the objectives and remit of the consultation. The Exec would then be asked to amplify, add or delete as appropriate. These would then be reviewed at the next Exec on 24th April to decide on which issues NGNuk should seek to provide feedback to Ofcom and how this feedback should be collated.
Action 2 - 13/03/2008: Secretariat to circulate to the Exec a draft "issues list" by end March
The Executive had previously discussed and agreed that the Charging Principles for PSTN Emulation should follow those long established for PSTN ( i.e. predominately CPNP and usage based)
The Objective of seeking further feedback was to review the existing charging elements for PSTN and agree which elements remained valid for voice over NGNs or which new factors needed to be considered (if any).
Individual interviews were undertaken with 14 Members regarding their views on which potential factors should be considered within a replacement charging mechanism for voice. A record of the interview was produced by the Secretariat and validated with CPs. The CPs that contributed were: BT, Colt, CPW, CW, H3G, Orange, Sky/Easynet, Thus, Tiscali, T-Mobile, VirginMedia, Verizon, Viatel, Vodafone.
Ten factors were identified and discussed. Of these six were stand alone issues (Time of Day, Duration, Volume Discounts, QoS, Reciprocity and Ported Numbers) and four which were linked (Distance, Number of Elements, Rural vs. Urban and Call Set Up)
On the stand alone issues the consensus of the Commercial group was that:
On the "linked" issues there was consensus within the feedback and discussions of the Commercial Group of a desire for the network elements to be fully reflected in the charging framework. There was however, no consensus on which elements were appropriate or the relative importance of
Distance / Network Topology, Call Set Up / Splitting media and signalling. Furthermore, the majority of the group did not support the introduction of rural vs. urban (dense / non dense MSAN) as a suitable charging factor.
Responses from members on these issues were distributed as follows:
| Distance | # of Elements | Density | Call Set Up |
Relevant | 8 | 13 | 3 | 5 |
Undecided | 0 | 0 | 3 | 4 |
Not Relevant | 5 | 1 | 9 | 5 |
The primary driver for most members is NGN interconnection with BT. As cost data was not available to allow discussion of the validity of the suggested element based charging mechanisms, the consensus of the Commercial Group had been that BT be requested to provide an outline of the charging structure they support, but which took into account the views expressed by NGNuk members. It was anticipated this would help crystallise debate. This recommendation was not accepted by the Exec since it focused on BT rather than a cross industry framework. It was agreed that the appropriate action to complete the NGNuk involvement in any future replacement Charge Framework for voice is for the Secretariat to fully document the views of members prior to submitting this information to Ofcom.
Action 3 - 13/03/2008 - Peter Ryde to document the output of the Charging Framework discussions and circulate this to the Executive for sign off prior to submission to Ofcom.
There was a brief discussion regarding the ending of NCC in September 2009. The focus of the debate related to how easily the detail of a replacement charging mechanism (and a future reciprocity agreement) could be agreed and its relationship to Ofcom's decision on whether to "roll over" NCC beyond this date. Differing views across the Executive were expressed with respect to whether NCC could or should be extended. Some members felt that given the current status of 21CN voice planning the imperative for a replacement charging mechanism had less urgency and that "rolling over" NCC was the safest approach in the near term. This view was not supported all members, some of whom felt that the current arrangements where already problematic and they would not be willing to extend these beyond Sept 2009.
Feedback from respondents had been split on the relevance of Reciprocity within a charging framework. The subsequent discussion at the commercial group reached consensus that whilst reciprocity was an important issue it was outside of the Charge Framework itself.
The existing reciprocity arrangements end with NCC in Sept 09. As NGN architectures and topology differs significantly between CPs it is likely that there will be winners and losers from a revised reciprocity agreement. A discussion took place amongst the Exec regarding where such an agreement might be taken forward and also the urgency of this.
There were differing views regarding the urgency and timing for replacement reciprocity arrangements. Whilst it was agreed that it was within the scope of NGNuk to consider what is at stake for operators and the underlying principles that might reasonably underpin a reciprocity agreement applying to all, no specific action was agreed by the Exec.
There was a suggestion that Ofcom might consider addressing reciprocity within the Narrow Band market review. Further to this there was additional discussion on whether the NGNuk Exec needed to consider its views on the key issues the narrowband market review needs to address and whether this should be provided to Ofcom as pre consultation input . The Secretariat was requested to invite the appropriate Ofcom representative to attend the Exec to discuss the opportunity for the NGNuk Exec to provide pre-consultation input to the NBMR.
Action 4 - 13/03/2008 - NGNuk Secretariat to invite the appropriate Ofcom representative to attend the Exec to discuss the opportunity for the NGNuk Exec to provide pre-consultation input to the NBMR.
Rod Smith circulated a proposed 2008/09 budget for review by the Exec. This was predicated on a reduction in the annual fees of approximately 60% to all members.
The revised fees suggested were: £100k for BT, £15k for Exec members and £1.5k for Participating members.
In discussions with the Exec it was agreed that:
Action 5 - 13/03/2008 - Secretariat to meet with Participating members to outline the changes in approach and budget for 2008/9 and to provide reassurance , on behalf of the Exec , of their value to the NGNuk Exec.
It was agreed unanimously that the budget for 2008/9 was approved.
Rod Smith stated that the invoices would be issued immediately and requested that members paid promptly.
Action 6 - 13/03/2008 - Secretariat to request that Ofcom immediately issues the 2008/9 invoices at the agreed rates
Green Release
Orange Release
Suggestions for the content of the release were reviewed during Q1 to provide better clarity of the scope and requirements. Progress has been hindered by the activity required to finalise Green .Prioritisation of the requirements has yet to be undertaken although two further meetings are planned during April.
A review of feedback on Presence and Location was undertaken on 11th December.
This identified wide ranging views across the membership and no clear consensus of anticipated services. It was agreed to await NICC draft "Orange" requirements as a starting point for NGNuk. NGNuk actioned at joint NICC/NGNuk Orange release meeting on 7th February to review initial scope and requirements. We are currently awaiting the draft from author.
Angus Flett informed the Exec that due to internal changes within BT Wholesale he would be stepping down from the NGNuk Exec. Although an individual had accepted the position, he was not yet able to announce the name of the individual.
Peter Black confirmed he would be standing down as Executive Chairman of NGNuk at the end of March 2008 .Rod Smith will be taking over as Executive Chairman as of April 2008.
The next meeting will be 10.00 to 14.00 on 24th March at Riverside House. It was agreed that subsequent meetings would be bi monthly.
Action 7 - 13/03/2008 - Secretariat to issue the Exec with details of the revised meeting dates and locations
Peter Ryde
NGNuk Office
07771 555 048
020 7783 4688
Action 6 - 27/09/2007 - The secretariat to request feedback from the Exec members on their thoughts regarding the key aims and attributes of the service principles. These to be collated by the secretariat and represented for discussion at the October Executive meeting. One response (Thus) to date. Held pending Exec discussion on 2008 priorities and focus | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 8 - 27/09/2007 - The secretariat to request feedback from the Exec members on their thoughts regarding the key aims and attributes of the principles that need to be considered for Numbering and Addressing. These to be collated by the secretariat and represented for discussion at the October Executive meeting. Request sent to Exec, 2 responses. Held pending Exec discussion on 2008 priorities and focus | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 2 - 29/11/2007 - Prepare documentation covering the background and approach to the charging work, the summarised responses of the members and recommendation for publication on the NGNuk web site. Exec sign off will be required prior to release. | Peter Ryde Ongoing |
Action 3 -29/11/2007- Update UKCTA on the Exec's views regarding NGNuk providing an agreed industry position for UKCTA. Confirmed in writing to UKCTA 22/01/2008 | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 4 -29/11/2007- Update UKCTA on the Exec's views regarding the development of an Industry Heads of Agreement. Confirmed in writing to UKCTA 22/01/2008 | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 1 - 13/12/2007 - Secretariat to provide their views (for discussion) at the January Exec on how the aims for 2008 outlined by the Exec will be achieved. Awaiting Exec output regarding 2008 priorities | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 2 - 13/12/2007 - Exec members should table those initial policy areas they wish NGNuk to consider during 2008 at the January Exec .2 responses to date ( CPW and Orange) | Exec By 24th Jan |
Action 3 - 13/12/2007 - Peter Ryde to circulate Neil McArthur's email regarding policy areas for consideration | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 4 - 13/12/2007 - Exec members to table those policy areas they believe Ofcom should have as a priority for development during 2008 for discussion at the January Executive No input received , however superseded by Ofcom consultation discussion | Ofcom By 24th Jan Closed |
Action 5 - 13/12/2007 - Secretariat to provide an outline budget for 2008 at the January Executive ( including a suggested process for obtaining additional funding where additional activity is requested by the Exec) See minutes above | Secretariat Completed |
Action 1 - 13/03/2008: Peter Ryde to liaise with Ofcom to schedule attendance, as appropriate, to provide feedback on the progress of the NGN consultation to the Exec.
Peter Ryde
Action 2 - 13/03/2008: Secretariat to circulate to the Exec a draft "issues list" by end March
Secretariat
Action 3 - 13/03/2008 - Peter Ryde to document the output of the Charging Framework discussions and circulate this to the Executive for sign off prior to submission to Ofcom.
Peter Ryde
Action 4 - 13/03/2008 - NGNuk Secretariat to invite the appropriate Ofcom representative to attend the Exec to discuss the opportunity for the NGNuk Exec to provide pre-consultation input to the NBMR.
Secretariat
Action 5 - 13/03/2008 - Secretariat to meet with Participating members to outline the changes in approach and budget for 2008/9 and to provide reassurance , on behalf of the Exec , of their value to the NGNuk Exec.
Secretariat
Action 6 - 13/03/2008 - Secretariat to request that Ofcom immediately issues the 2008/9 invoices at the agreed rates
Secretariat
Action 7 - 13/03/2008 - Secretariat to issue the Exec with details of the revised meeting dates and locations
Secretariat