Peter Black (NGNuk) - Chair
Peter Ryde (NGNuk)
Mark Dalziel (NGNuk/OTA)
Rod Smith (NGNuk/OTA)
Angus Flett (BT Wholesale)
Andy King (Virgin Media)
Marina Gibbs (Ofcom)
Neil McArthur (CPW)
Phil Male (Thus),
Andy May (Cable & Wireless)
Peter Agnew (Colt)
Phil Kirby (Vodafone)
Apologies:, Robyn Durie (T-Mobile) ,Stuart Shutt (Orange) , Alireza Mahmoodshahi (Colt)
No comments had been received on the September minutes and these were accepted by the Executive.
The updated actions are covered at the end of this document.
Following previous discussion, and having sought feedback from members of the exec, a paper had been circulated covering the the background to the discussion and options for the future of NGNuk. These were briefly represented as follows:
a) A review of what had been achieved to date was provided. This included:
b) Those aspects that will not be completed by end March 2008 which are anticipated as being:
c) The work that NGNuk might undertake during 2008 /2009 should it continue in existence:
Three options were presented to the Executive. During this discussion a fourth option was proposed by Ofcom and a fifth developed during discussion. These are as follows:
Option 1 - Close NGNuk: If NGNuk closed the Exec would need to consider which, if any of the existing activities should be continued and how. In addition there would be no vehicle for resolving disputes across the industry without reference to Ofcom, for providing commercial input to NICC or for addressing the commercial model beyond voice.
Option 2 - Remain as is:Evidence from 2007 is that CPs will focus scarce resource and attention on the near term business priorities (which are generally BT related) and that insufficient CP resources are available to support a broad approach. Where longer term "strategic" work was undertaken external resources would be required which would add significant cost yet still require CP resources and involvement.
Option 3 - A slimmer more focused model: This was the recommendation suggested by the Secretariat based on analysing various inputs. This recommended continuing NGNuk in a targeted, lower cost approach, addressing the completion of any outstanding work streams from 2007/2008, providing the co-ordination of commercial input and support to NICC, ensuring resolution of Interconnect issues raised by members which have an impact across the industry where a common approach would be of value. This would reflect a manageable level of support from Members, the likely over run of some activities into 2008/9 and ensures that a suitable forum is available as and when required by Industry
Option 4 - Hibernation: A 4th approach was suggested during discussions, that of "hibernating" NGNuk at the end of March 2008 for an unspecified time until industry was more active and was better able to resource NGNuk.
Following a lengthy debate amongst the Executive , Peter Black tried to draw the themes of the discussion together and identified the following:
These themes were developed further by the group; The ensuing discussion arrived at a loose consensus that, if NGNuk is to continue, it should conclude the existing activities, and that future activities would be more policy or strategy related and would only be initiated following presentation of the activity / issue relating to NGNs to the Exec and agreement by the Exec to support this. In terms of process it was considered that only a small number of issues (3 or 4) should be considered at each Exec, that these be supported by a short written brief circulated well in advance, thereby ensuring that the issue is understood and Exec members can undertake informed debate. If appropriate, NGNuk could then present the outcome of discussion to a third party for information / action / resolution (ie. Ofcom, NICC, UKCTA, etc)
Note: It was also suggested that if NGNuk continues BERR (previously DTI) should also be invited as an observer since this would help tie in to their involvement on NGA.
Whilst a level of consensus was obtained, all members wished for time to consider this further. This matter will therefore be discussed further at the December Executive after the NGNuk Secretariat has evaluated what the likely impacts will be. A short paper will be circulated well before the December Executive.
Action 1 - 29/11/2007 - Peter Ryde to summarise the debate ( in advance of the Exec minutes) and also to circulate a short paper well in advance of the December Exec ( 13th December) to allow further discussion at this meeting.
The following results of survey of operator members of NGNuk were presented to the Exec showing the preferred charging structures for PSTN Emulation.
The approach that had been taken was that Members were asked to score sets of questions for there views on usage charging, port based charging and capacity charging covering the following areas ( based upon earlier Charging analysis and also the NGNuk core principles):
Support material had been produced by Ellare/Oxare to given an independent view of the issues each question raised in relation to the charging options presented.
Members were asked to respond based upon their preferred charging option ( and to describe these). The Secretariat and members accepted that the questions most probably had an unintentional bias towards Usage Charging as this is known and understood.
Note: Port Charging was not supported by operators so has not been presented within the results.
In summary 8 respondents chose have Usage Charging as their preferred choice with 3 opting for Capacity Charging ( One is only marginally ahead of UC)
The eleven operators responded who responded were BT, C&W, COLT, CPW, Gamma, Sky/Easynet, THUS, Tiscali, Verizon, Viatel and Virgin Media.No Mobile Operators responded however all data was presented anonymously.
Note: Detailed of the results have not been reproduced in the minutes but will be published separately
In discussing the results with the Commercial work group it was felt that supporting a move to capacity charging at this time was seen as risky as the outcome and costs were not understood. There appeared no significant catalyst for change at this time as new products and services are not well understood or defined and so difficult to reflect within the charging structure. Maintaining UC was therefore seen as having minimal impact on the Consumer experience in the short term and that developing UC to better reflect NGN efficiencies would facilitate the easiest transition for PSTN emulation. In addition the group felt that at this time CC would need to be supplemented overlay charging scheme for PRS , international etc. However the groups accepted that the results indicated that CC was seen as the most efficient basis for a cost orientated charging model for NGNs.
The recommendation of the group to the Exec was to develop an "interim" charge framework for voice based on usage as this could be available for the end of NCC in Oct 2009. This usage scheme should seek to better reflect NGN economics/ architecture than exists today.
The Exec accepted that this recommendation as a pragmatic approach given the status of NGN deployment. There were significant concerns that the latest BT re-plan of 21CN may have a significant impact on the approach required however the detail was as yet too imprecise.
It was agreed that the Secretariat should document recommendation and supporting evidence for publication on the NGNUK website.
Action 2 - 29/11/2007 - Peter Ryde to prepare documentation covering the background and approach to the charging work, the summarised responses of the members and recommendation for publication on the NGNuk web site. Exec sign off will be required prior to release.
The feedback on the Charging templates regarding the nature of the Usage schemes anticipated was insufficient for a detailed analysis. All members will be asked to comment on how the existing usage scheme needs to be amended to better reflect NGN economics , why this is the case and what benefits would accrue prior to Christmas.
An audio Conference 8th November with some of TSG work group leaders which covered:
In terms of NGNuk input to developing the Orange Release to date these have been::
The TSG is meeting to establish initial requirements on 11th December and NGNuk representatives will attend. It has been proposed that the original editors of Service Specifications.
The Commercial and Programme contacts had been requested to submit any comments on priorities and /or whether any members wish to attend the meeting.
NGNuk intent at this meeting is to focus on high level requirements and ensure commercial input and influence within the process
A meeting had been held with UKCTA representatives on 29th October. This discussed the status of the MSA with BT and using this as the basis of a subsequent starting point for agreements between interconnecting CPs.
UKCTA reported that it was experiencing a level of intransigence in its negotiations with BT over the MSA. Angus Flett however that progress was now being made following the change of legal team negotiating on behalf of BT.
UKCTA stated that a useful role for NGNuk might be as a vehicle for developing and agreeing an agreed industry position for UKCTA to negotiate against. The Exec discussed this proposal however they felt this could be better achieved within UKCTA. Those Exec members who were members of UKCTA stated they would raise this with their representatives.
Action 3 -29/11/2007- Peter Ryde to update UKCTA on the Exec's views regarding NGNuk providing an agreed industry position for UKCTA.
UKCTA had also suggested the principle of developing an industry Heads of Agreement which would frame how CPs would contract with each other. It was hoped that this might overcome issues that might arise with the negotiation of contracts and allow both parties to reference back to an agreed set of principles
The Exec felt this would be beneficial, however they felt this should be pursued via UKCTA rather than via NGNUK.
Action 4 -29/11/2007- Peter Ryde to update UKCTA on the Exec's views regarding the development of an Industry Heads of Agreement.
A discussion had taken place regarding with UKCTA regarding developing an agreed set of definitions within areas such as SLAs . It was agreed that this would of use but we did not have time to develop the discussion further
Peter Ryde met with Graham Crane leader of the NICC B2B work group on 6th November to discuss whether some of the operational issues relating to NGN contracts fell within the remit of this work group.
Billing and Payment: This activity is in the B2B work stack for prioritisation early in the new year. The scope is currently "automated interfaces" rather than E2E. Final agreement would require NICC agreeing and obtaining cross industry support. It is likely to be a different participants to those who currently attend B2B work groups.
Planning and Operations : This activity involves defining the operational processes between CPs. In scope for B2B is work relating to interfaces that are automated and part of the L2C and Trouble-To-Resolve (T2R) processes, i.e. for the ordering and management of products. Anything else including non-product interactions, would currently be out of scope. Again additional requirements for the B2B group is dependent on what NICC and BT agree, and industry supports
Service Level Agreement :It is proposed that UKCTA develop an agreed set of terms for the SLA such that industry is using a common set of definitions. As some work is ongoing within the B2B group in this area seeking to ensure that there is no duplication and that it builds upon any work that NICC B2B has as ongoing would be sensible
Exec feedback on principles ( Action 6 - 27/09/2007) refers. Peter Ryde presented the feed back to date. This would be re-circulated for final comment.
Exec feedback on principles ( Action 8 - 27/09/2007) refers. Peter Ryde presented the feed back to date. This would be re-circulated for final comment.
Peter Ryde reported that a good response had been received on the questions relating to CP views on Presence and Location. This information was being summarise and a conference call had been scheduled for the 11th December to feed back the initial summary and to discuss the way ahead.
Phil Male gave an update on the Security and Authentication work stream led by Thus.
Authentication and especially identity management had been considered . However, whilst much authentication activity is a purely implementation detail, identity management requires strategic thought. The near term focus of much NGNuk work made more future identity management issues hard to consider as they need a framework of services to sit in.
Further co-operation between operators will be required as work on NGNs continues. A secure network, with strong identity management provides one of the underlying value pillars of an NGN
The NGNuk authentication work-stream PID promised the following:
A review of existing information, including vendors and other standards body work. Meetings have been organised with Nortel and Newport. Others to follow. Information from the ITU identity management work stream has been made available.
Formulate a proposed NGNuk position on levels of confidence in information relating to identity. This is an outstanding action
Develop replacement for code of practice for CLI to take into account NGN issues. This is an outstanding action.
In summary useful discussions are ongoing, however completion of all deliverables cannot happen until operators are closer to delivering true NGN applications and services.
There were no AOB items raised
The next meeting will be 10.00 to 14.00 on 13th December at Riverside House.
Future scheduled meetings:
DATE | MEETING | TIME |
31st January 2008 | NGNuk Executive Meeting | 10.00 - 14.00 |
Peter Ryde
NGNuk Office
07771 555 048
020 7783 4688
Action 1 - 27/09/2007 - The Secretariat to seek further clarification and quantification of the likely impact and costs resulting from the NICC decision to adopt RTCP HR for the monitoring of all calls. Following the Executives view (Sept minutes) that insufficient detail had been provided this has been flagged back to NICC. An update meeting was held with members of TSG ( 8th November ) where this was discussed in more detail. At the end of the call there was no resolution of the issue however it was felt inappropriate to continue to seek a response. | Secretariat Closed |
Action 2 - 27/09/2007 - Peter Ryde to define more clearly the issues involved and recommend the level of Programme Management that is appropriate. This was discussed with the Exec and the Secretariat recommendation that this it was outside of the scope of NGNuk activity was accepted by the Exec | Peter Ryde Closed |
Action 3 -27/09/2007 - Peter Ryde to meet with suitable representatives of UKCTA to discuss the NGNuk view regarding the approach to developing the legal element of the NGN interconnect contract from UKCTA work with Consult21 and also how to ensure Mobile Operators engagement in this process Meeting held 29th October. Report within Interconnect Framework section of agenda. | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 5 - 27/09/2007 - Secretariat to develop scoping document for those commercial areas requiring agreed definitions. This to be reviewed with UKCTA . Following review to be represented to the Exec with a resource plan (and costs) Meeting arranged with UKCTA on 29th October. Report within Interconnect Framework section of agenda. | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 6 - 27/09/2007 - The secretariat to request feedback from the Exec members on their thoughts regarding the key aims and attributes of the service principles. These to be collated by the secretariat and represented for discussion at the October Executive meeting. One response (Thus) to date. See Programme Update | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 7 -27/09/2007 - Peter Ryde to meet with suitable representatives of NICC B2B work group to discuss the NGNuk view regarding the approach to developing the detailed billing processes and confirm that NICCB2B believe that they are the suitable owners of such activity. Meeting held early October . Report within Interconnect Framework section of agenda. | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 8 - 27/09/2007 - The secretariat to request feedback from the Exec members on their thoughts regarding the key aims and attributes of the principles that need to be considered for Numbering and Addressing. These to be collated by the secretariat and represented for discussion at the October Executive meeting. Request sent to Exec, 2 responses. See Programme Update | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 9 - 27/09/2007 - Peter Ryde to forward completed Data Requirements document to NICC Final version sent to NICC. | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 10 - 27/09/2007 - Secretariat to follow up with NICC to obtain collective response from NICC regarding the Requirements submitted by NGNuk. A call took place between Peter Ryde (NGNuk) and Paul Rothbotham (NICC) on 24th October and a follow conference call held with TSG members . See NICC Update. | Secretariat Completed |
Action 1 - 25/10/2007 - Peter Ryde to circulate details of the dead line for a response to Gideon Sensensieb regarding the questions circulated to the CPs to support Ofcom's cost modelling work. | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 2 - 25/10/2007 - Peter Ryde to inform the Exec of those CPs who had stated they intended to submit a response to the Straw man on Presence and Location | Peter Ryde Completed |
Action 3 - 25/10/2007 - Executive to provide comments on the draft paper regarding the future of NGNuk to the Secretariat by 16th November | Executive Completed |
Action 1 - 29/11/2007 -Summarise the debate on the Future of NGNuk ( in advance of the Exec minutes) and also to circulate a short paper well in advance of the December Exec ( 13th December) to allow further discussion at this meeting. | Peter Ryde |
Action 2 - 29/11/2007 - Prepare documentation covering the background and approach to the charging work, the summarised responses of the members and recommendation for publication on the NGNuk web site. Exec sign off will be required prior to release. | Peter Ryde |
Action 3 -29/11/2007- Update UKCTA on the Exec's views regarding NGNuk providing an agreed industry position for UKCTA. | Peter Ryde |
Action 4 -29/11/2007- Update UKCTA on the Exec's views regarding the development of an Industry Heads of Agreement. | Peter Ryde |