Peter Black (NGNuk) – Chair
Peter Ryde (NGNuk)
Mark Dalziel (NGNuk)
Andy May (Cable & Wireless)
Angus Flett (BT Wholesale)
Alireza Mahmoodshahi (Colt),
Andy King (Virgin Media)
Steve Unger (Ofcom)
Marcus Webb (Vodafone)
Richard Sweet (Thus)
Apologies: Robyn Durie (T-Mobile), Huw Saunders (Kingston), Phil Kirby (Vodafone), Neil McArthur (Opal), Ben Philips ( Easynet), Phil Male (Thus), Stuart Shutt (Orange),
Action 1 from 31st May requested that Ofcom discuss the thinking behind their cost model, the overall process and likely industry touch points.
Gideon Senensieb presented. He explained that the purpose of the presentation was to explain the objectives of the model, the modelling approach and to solicit feedback. It was not intended to publish the results of the modelling nor to pre-empt the outcome of the current commercial process.
It is to help Ofcom understand the impact of such issues as the impact of increased usage across all services, the cost impact of marginal increases in volume of services, the impact of different usage patterns etc.
The main aim of the model was to help inform the thinking of Ofcom in understanding the overall costs of 21CN (rather than Altnets or MOs) and the underlying cost drivers. There was some discussion about whether the model could assist with the discussions on the numbers of points of Interconnect. It was stressed that the output would not support this, nor would it be available in the appropriate timescale.
The model has been built bottom up with all nodes modelled explicitly, as are all network components (It was stressed that whilst detailed the model was not necessarily accurate as it was predicated on a large number of assumptions. Whilst these assumptions would not be exposed by Ofcom they requested feedback from CPs to help formulate these assumptions). Services and QoS are modelled as aggregated services contending for bandwidth. It was acknowledged that the Service Mix would have a significant impact. The model looks at 21CN in its entirety and does not reflect internal BT structure. The model also looks at a 10 year time frame.
There was a concern voiced by the Exec that the BT wholesale business impact is not reflected in the model.
The model has been constructed and will be updated to reflect changes in the 21CN design as it evolves. Whilst the model is currently populated with Ofcom based assumptions, Ofcom welcomes industry led views to develop useful input scenarios and views of cost.
The question was asked regarding what input was required from CPs. Ofcom felt that the impact of the development of future services was an area where CP views would be particularly welcomed however it was agreed that Ofcom would present CPs with a structured set of questions where it would appreciate feedback and expertise from CPs.
Ofcom were asked whether they were aware of any NRAs undertaking such activity. They stated they were not.
Action 1 - 28/06/2007 - Gideon Senensieb to provide NGNuk with a structured set of questions reflecting the specific feedback Ofcom is seeking from CPs to help ensure that the assumptions adopted are as robust and accurate as possible.
Following the Ofcom presentation there was a discussion regarding whether the NGNuk modeling work (discounted at the last NGNuk Exec) might still be of benefit. It was agreed that Andy May and Peter Black would review this and circulate a proposal to the Executive.
Action 2 – 28/06/2007 – Andy May and Peter Black to reconsider case for NGNuk modelling work and circulate a proposal to the NGNuk Exec.
Action 5 from the Exec 31st May 2007 requested that the Secretariat create a strawman structure that replicates the final interconnect framework, to populate this and identify what has been agreed and the issues outstanding.
Peter Ryde stated that he had started by requesting that CPs provide details of their existing agreements. A number had replied by stating that their agreements were based upon those that they agreed with BTW.
Peter Ryde outlined his approach. This assumes that many areas of work will be undertaken outside of NGNuk (e.g. MSA with BTW via Consult 21). The draft framework will identify the areas of work requiring NGNuk involvement, input or ownership and the status. Where NGNuk involvement is not required the “lead“ will be identified. The Exec agreed this approach .The work would be presented back to the Exec in August.
An initial NGNuk view on numbers and locations had been provided to BTW in March 2007. Subsequent email correspondence between NGNuk WG and BTW became a “Catch 22” between CP desire for greater detail of BTW costs and BTW request for a view of CP benefit model. BTW then stated they planned for consultation w/c 28th May via Consult 21. This consultation is now closed
Angus Flett gave a brief overview of the feedback from Industry. This feedback reflected polarity between Voice and Broadband discussions and between the various business models of CPs. In terms of voice the number of interconnects supported varied from single digit numbers to high 30s. BT would consider these inputs. No timeframe for a determination from BT was provided.
It was agreed no further involvement from NGNuk was anticipated.
It was requested that BT confirm as part of this exercise the capability and resilience of each of the nodes.
The final version of the Charging Principles paper has been agreed. This will be published under NGNuk branding shortly via the NGNuk website. Once published the document will be under change control via the Secretariat.
It was agreed that NGNuk/Members should seek to promote these views where requested to do so, however no overt proactive promotion would be undertaken.
Dates for feedback on the Charging Framework had been proposed in weeks commencing 18th and 25th June. Unfortunately the dates proposed whilst well attended across the membership were not convenient for those members who had provided detailed input and consideration. The 5th July is now agreed with these members as a suitable date
Outputs of this meeting are anticipated as (a) a consensus that key points have been identified and (b) that an approach is agreed regarding how to address areas of non agreement
Detailed comments incorporated from members with over 130 received and considered. Workshops (VPN & Security) conclusions had been incorporated and also more cross-references to TISPAN (3GPP) work had been included.
The structure itself had been revised based on layered services approach between:
External input had been solicited. A meeting with ISPA had taken place
Issue 2.0 had been received by the Secretariat and will be published shortly to members. This will be accompanied by an audit report on how comments had been treated.
The requirements still lacked detail outside of existing voice and data services. In addition it was felt that some requirements identified by members were inconsistent with other standards initiatives and that NGNuk appears to be debating some requirements that have already been adopted by standards bodies e.g. TISPAN, 3GPP which also includes some service definition work. This will create additional work for no purpose.
It was agreed that NGNuk requirements must defer to these standards where they exist and that NGNuk activity should address UK specific priorities or choices. To achieve this it is believed that NICC will need to play an active role in identifying these choices to NGNuk. It was also agreed that a mechanism to get UK requirements into TISPAN should be explored with NICC.
The VPN workshop was held with the following companies represented: Thus, COLT, BT, Orange, C&W
The need for VPN end-to-end services to be supported on NGN interconnects was not disputed and it was agreed should be firmly embedded in the requirements.
At the workshop it was felt that the requirements of Thus and others for VPN services could be met through the existing, connection-orientated data model, i.e., Ethernet.
Whilst at the workshop there was no support of MPLS or other technologies to support facilities (infrastructure) based competition there was support from both Virgin and Thus at the Executive. It was agreed that Thus/Virgin would identify whether they could obtain further support from members. If available they would continue to sponsor this as a work stream.
The security workshop took place with the following companies represented: Thus, COLT, BT, Orange, and C&W
It was agreed that there was other Security work which NGNuk could lever:
During a discussion on Authentication it was agreed that CLI becoming less reliable and that there was a need for requirements to accommodate:
Apart from Thus, no strong appetite for a shared trust model which would facilitate the development of new “assured” services.
The management of Quality-related Security Issues (SPAM, SPIT etc) was discussed:
Within the customer driven Security requirements there were no specific requirements for NGN interconnect to support customer security standards. Where necessary this would be achieved though bi-laterals. Overall there was agreed to be a general requirement “not to hinder” interconnecting operators which are implementing customer-specific secure networks.
There was agreement at the workshops that the overall impact of NGNs at a consumer level could be perceived as a reduction in quality and customer experience compared to the PSTN. Despite this there was no strong appetite for CPs to work together to agree a new trust/authentication model. In addition the workshops indicated a tendency to default to bilateral discussions as a solution rather than addressing on a multi-lateral basis.
The Secretariat voiced its concerns that this approach will lead to a poorer experience for the consumer and that NGNuk are missing opportunities to differentiate and add value. In addition it was felt that a bilateral approach will lead to closed (and smaller) markets and difficulties in service portability.
The Executive shared these concerns. Peter Black asked the Executive to speak to their teams to ensure that there was a more strategic approach adopted by individuals supporting the work streams.
In terms of the “lost opportunities” arising from Security / Authentication it was agreed that the workshop would be re-run with a more explicit brief from the Exec regarding trying to develop an enhanced customer experience.
Action 3 – 28/06/2007 – Peter Ryde/Leo Todd/Thus to develop a customer experience “straw man” and to re-run the Security /Authentication work shop. Output should be a better developed view of the preferred customer experience and an approach to Security/Authentication that supports this.
The Secretariat gave a summary of the potential work streams that had been presented to the Exec.
The following had been prioritised as “medium”:
The following had been prioritized as “low” (indicating it was either not urgent or could not be undertaken at this time):
Of the nine work streams that had been prioritised and which were being led by CPs , four had been put on hold:
The Programme Board of 20th June had been arranged to review the Project Initiation Documents for the active CP programmes. Only 2 of the 5 PIDS were available for review
Programme Board reviewed these and agreed with the Secretariat that they are not fit for purpose and inadequate for:
The Secretariat will review these individually with the authors. They are required prior to 16th July review with NICC.
The Exec discussed whether the difficulties arose because they the work streams were inappropriate, however it was agreed that this was not the case. Some discussion took place regarding the possibility of the Secretariat taking over these tasks once adequately defined by the PID.
Peter Black stated that the 2007/2008 invoices had been issued and requested prompt payment. 2 Members (Kingston and Time Warner) had still not paid for 2006/2007. Subsequent to receiving the 2007/2008 invoice TW had informed the Secretariat that they intended to withdraw from NGNuk.
PSTN is a known entity whereas NGN Interconnects are likely to require more rigorous test environment as it is newer technology, vendors and operators have less experience and testing will generally involve more complexity because there are more discrete boxes hence greater combinations of equipment.
It was discussed whether NGNuk should support the principle of inter working testing by suppliers where this would ease subsequent integration by Operators. It was agreed that where a 3rd party wished to establish inter-supplier testing for NGN equipment using standardised tests, that NGNuk recognises such action as being beneficial and would recommend to NICC that this be supported technically. It was not anticipated that this should involve additional work for Operators. In this context, as an example the activity of MSF in this sphere was acknowledged and welcomed.
The next meeting will be 10.00 to 14.00 on 28th July 2007 at Riverside House.
Future scheduled meetings:
DATE | MEETING | TIME |
30th Aug 2007 | NGNuk Executive Meeting | 10.00 – 14.00 |
27th Sept 2007 | NGNuk Executive Meeting | 10.00 – 14.00 |
Peter Ryde
NGNuk Office
07771 555 048
020 7783 4688
Action 8 – 22/02/2007 – Confirm the status of the Terms of Reference covering interaction of NGNuk with NICC within NICC. Review meeting arranged with NICC TSG on 16th July | Peter Ryde Ongoing |
Action 9 – 29/03/2007 – Scope request regarding the validation of 4 QoS classes and pass to NICC Review meeting arranged with NICC TSG on 16th July | Peter Ryde Ongoing |
Action 14 – 29/03/2007 - Develop guidance notes for work stream leaders regarding the use of non members within a work stream. The Exec requested that the guidance notes ensure that work stream leaders are aware that they should not favour non members in such a way that it might distort competition. | Peter Ryde Ongoing |
Action 3 – 26/04/2007 – Secretariat to arrange that Openreach attend to provide detail of where the Openreach products will interconnect. Openreach have agreed to present at the July Exec meeting | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 4 – 26/04/2007 - all members should comment on the Interconnect Requirements even if only to confirm that no comments would be submitted by 11th May. The second draft will be issued without comments from Kingston and Opal | Exec Closed |
Action 1 – 31/05/2007 – The Secretariat to request an appropriate representative of Ofcom discuss the thinking behind their cost model, the overall process and likely industry touch points. Presented 28th June | Secretariat Completed |
Action 2 – 31/05/2007 – CW to confirm the amendments it is seeking to the final draft to the Charging Principles paper by 15th June Received | CW Completed |
Action 3 – 31/05/2007 – Stuart Shutt to send Leo Todd the TISPAN use cases for NRT, Streaming and RT (non voice). Nick Sampson (Orange ) had contacted Secretariat to progress | Stuart Shutt Completed |
Action 4 – 31/05/2007 – Secretariat to meet with those members who have expressed concerns regarding the effectiveness of the requirements process to Leo Todd to gain a better understanding and decide what action might be appropriate. | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 5 – 31/05/2007 – Secretariat should create a strawman structure that replicates the final interconnect framework, then to populate this document to identify clearly what has been agreed and the key issues outstanding. Initial views presented at June Exec | Secretariat Ongoing |
Action 1 - 28/06/2007 - Gideon Senensieb to provide NGNuk with a structured set of questions reflecting the specific feedback Ofcom is seeking from CPs to help ensure that the assumptions adopted are as robust and accurate as possible. | Ofcom |
Action 2 – 28/06/2007 – Andy May and Peter Black to reconsider case for NGNuk modelling work and circulate a proposal to the NGNuk Exec. | Andy May Peter Black |
Action 3 – 28/06/2007 – Peter Ryde/Leo Todd/Thus to develop a customer experience “straw man” and to re-run the Security /Authentication work shop. Output should be a better developed view of the preferred customer experience and an approach to Security/Authentication that supports this. | Peter Ryde |