• Attendees
• Agenda
• Minutes and Actions of Previous Meeting (22/02/2007)
• Update on Interconnect Numbers and Locations
• Charging Principles
• Charging Framework
• Requirements Activity
• Programme Scope
• AOB
• Next Meeting
• Outstanding Action List
• New actions

Peter Black (NGNuk) – Chair

Peter Ryde (NGNuk)

Mark Dalziel (NGNuk)

Andy May (Cable & Wireless)

Angus Flett (BT Wholesale)

Robyn Durie (T-Mobile)

Phil Male (Thus),

Alireza Mahmoodshahi (Colt),

Stuart Shutt (Orange),

Andy King (Virgin Media)

Ben Philips ( Easynet)

Apologies:  

Justin Fielder (SKY/Easynet), Steve Unger (Ofcom), Huw Saunders (Kingston), Phil Kirby (Vodafone), Neil McArthur (Opal)

 

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• Minutes and Actions from last meeting (26^th April 2007)
• Update on Interconnect Numbers and Locations
• Update Charging Principles paper
• Update on Interconnect Requirements
• Overall Programme Scope
• AOB

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Minutes – No changes to the draft minutes had been received. The minutes of the last meeting were therefore accepted.

Actions – See outstanding actions update at the end of this document.

Feedback on Action 5 – 26/04/2007

In carrying out the scoping work on the programme very different resource requirements had been identified for Voice and Data. The Secretariat was actioned to identify the causes of this.

The data task was seen as being far more straight forward as the services were less extensive and generally better defined and that existing telephony requirements are probably less well documented. The approach for data had been that NGNuk work should define the policy and requirements with a clearer handover into NICC to conclude the technical detail. In addition the voice work had extrapolated many Consult 21 activities across CPs. It was questioned whether this was appropriate in many cases and CW agreed to consider this within the next draft.

Feedback on Action 6 – 26/04/2007

The NGNuk within the working group on Interconnect Numbers and Locations had discussed a number of issues in relation to the interconnect of NGN where they have been unable to reach agreement due to a lack of understanding of the costs and economics of NGN interconnect.

A key issue has been the optimum number of interconnects and how that might change with higher bandwidth services in the future.  It is anticipated that future discussions on charging structures will also require greater understanding of costs and cost drivers than is currently available.

A paper was presented that reviewed how this work might be undertaken. This identified two objectives:

(1) “To understand the extent to which the number of points of interconnect is likely to change the end to end costs of providing services over NGNs” .

(2) “Establish the dominant cost drivers (time, bandwidth, session initiations etc) for key NGN based services. This

These were discussed by the Exec and a consensus agreed that Objective 1 should not be pursued, whilst Objective 2 should be put on hold awaiting a clearer view of the work being undertaken by Ofcom. It was agreed that NGNuk activity was likely to duplicate modelling work that Ofcom will need to undertake as part of its regulatory responsibilities. It was felt that it would be more appropriate to try to ensure that industry feeds into Ofcom it’s views on principles, drivers etc to ensure that any output has wide acceptance. It was also felt that such consultation would need to be wider than just NGNuk.

Action 1 – 31/05/2007 – The Secretariat to request an appropriate representative of Ofcom present their thinking behind their cost model, the overall process and likely industry touch points so that industry could feel confident that the model would represent the industry view of reality.

During the last month there had been correspondence between the NGNuk working group and BTW regarding additional data to support the initial views presented by NGNuk on the numbers and locations of interconnects.

The CPs requested greater detail of BTW costs. Similarly BTW requested a clearer view of CP benefit model

These requests were hampered by the availability and confidentiality of BTW data. The information provided was insufficient to allow NGNuk to review its initial views.

BTW informed NGNuk that it would consult with industry regarding the initial NGNuk view via Consult 21 of 31 potential Voice interconnects and 20 for wBC. This would be issued during the week ending 1^st June.

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The final draft of the Charging Principles paper had received 3 comments from members.

A discussion took place regarding the most significant of these comments received from CW which considered a specific situation where B&K might be more favourable than presented within the paper. CW was still reviewing this internally.  

Action 2 – 31/05/2007 – CW to confirm the amendments it is seeking to the final draft to the Charging Principles paper by 15^th June.

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Peter Ryde gave a summary of the review meetings undertaken with Members on the potential charging framework.

Meetings have been undertaken with Thus, CW, Orange, T-Mobile, Colt, Tiscali, Colt and BT with reviews arranged for Vodafone and Viatel. The responses obtained varied from CPs initial thoughts to more detailed consideration of the options and issues.

Some members had provided useful templates which will help structure further debate.

The key themes identified were:

• That generally there was little desire or benefit seen from significant change in a framework that could support Voice Emulation however it was agreed that the framework should allow for future evolution to support new services.
• Views between CPs were polarised about whether call control/session management costs will form a higher proportion of overall costs and therefore whether they may need to be charged separately.
• There was some support for charging for capacity rather than per second.
• There was a reasonable consensus about chargeable elements within call/session control with the exception of Presence and Location information.
• There was a lack of consensus on issues such as QoS , SLAs etc largely due to lack of consideration

In terms of the way forward the following was agreed:

• A more detailed version of the feedback will be provided to the Commercial Group. This will be non attributable expect for specific material agreed by the originating CP
• Some of the framework suggested during the reviews will be modified/updated and distributed to the Commercial Group for consideration and debate
• It is expected that particular focus will be given to:
  • Capacity vs. Minutes
  • Whether Call /Session control are sufficiently significant in terms of costs to be charged separately
  • Agree the chargeable and non chargeable elements (inc Location and Presence)

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End-to-End Requirements Definition

The latest draft of the E2E requirements had been put on the web site and public comments been invited. None have been received

Interconnect Requirements

Leo Todd presented an update on the Interconnect Requirements. He reported that progress has been delayed by slow responses to (repeated) call for comments

However, only three Exec members had yet to indicate when they would respond. These are Kingston, Opal and Virgin Media.

Upcoming meetings (or expected comments) are arranged with Vodafone, ISPA and ITSPA

VPN and Security workshops will be incorporated in next draft however these had to be postponed due to insufficient participation from Members. The Exec commented that in future such meetings should proceed as planned and that failure to participate meant that the views of those who do would prevail.

Draft 2.0 is now expected 3rd week in June

Leo Todd went on to outline some general concerns that had been raised that needed to be addressed in preparing the next draft:

a) Near Real Time , Streaming and Real Time (non voice) requirements are still incomplete but that also some of the urgency has dissipated due confirmation of when existing products will be retained by BT

The Exec agreed that this work (plus the associated PID) should remain on hold until clearer requirements are identified.

Stuart Shutt believed that TISPAN use cases did provide further information. This had been sent to Clive Fedida some time ago. It was agreed that this would be resent and reviewed by Leo Todd.

Action 3 – 31/05/2007 – Stuart Shutt to send Leo Todd the TISPAN use cases for NRT, Streaming and RT (non voice).

b) A full glossary is required

c) The balance between the technical detail and higher level definition needs to be resolved with some inconsistent views being provided by CP’s. Requirements need to be sufficient for NICC to be able to undertake their work and understand the context of the requirements.

Finally, Leo outlined some observations and concerns from some of the newer members regarding the effectiveness of the requirements work and areas which they feel do not appear to have been addressed. It was requested by the Exec that this should be picked up by the Secretariat to understand the issues better,

Action 4 – 31/05/2007 – Secretariat to meet with those members who have expressed concerns regarding the effectiveness of the requirements process to Leo Todd to gain a better understanding and decide what action might be appropriate.

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An update on the status of the Project Initiation Documents was provided:

1. Authentication (Phil Male, Thus) – This is largely written but is on hold awaiting the Security/Authentication workshop.
2. Service Specification for Real Time Voice (no owner agreed but CW completing PID) – this is imminent however the author is currently on leave.
3. Service Specification for Data (Alireza Mahmoodshahi, Colt) – Draft provided.
4. MPLS/VPN Scope (Phil Male, Thus) - This is largely written but is on hold awaiting the Security/Authentication workshop.
5. Cost Modeling (Andy May, CW) – Draft provided however this is now on hold. See earlier minutes.
6. Numbering and Addressing ( Justin Fielder, Sky/Easynet ) – Draft Submitted
7. Presence and Location (Angus Flett, BT) –Lead identified.
8. Service Specification for Real Time (Other) (Angus Flett, BT) – On hold. See Earlier minutes
9. Service Specification Near Real Time and Streaming (Angus Flett, BT). On hold. See earlier minutes

The outputs will be reviewed by the Programme Board in the week following the VPN/MPLS and Security/Authentication workshops.

It was suggested by the Exec that the Secretariat should create a strawman structure that replicates the final interconnect framework, then to populate this document to identify clearly what has been agreed and the key issues outstanding. This would then help direct and prioritise the work programmes.

Action 5 – 31/05/2007 – Secretariat should create a strawman structure that replicates the final interconnect framework, then to populate this document to identify clearly what has been agreed and  the key issues outstanding

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Membership Application

The application from 02 to join NGNuk as a participating member was accepted.

UKTram

NGNuk have been asked to distribute a questionnaire to member CPs to respond to UKTram. This is appended:

UKTRAM.pdf

In this instance the Exec agreed however, they requested that the Secretariat redirect such requests in future to other representative bodies.

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The next meeting will be 10.00 to 14.00 on 28^th June 2007 at Riverside House.

Future scheduled meetings

DATE	MEETING	TIME
28th July 2007	NGNuk Executive Meeting	10.00 – 14.00
30th Aug 2007	NGNuk Executive Meeting	10.00 – 14.00
27th Sept 2007	NGNuk Executive Meeting	10.00 – 14.00

 

Peter Ryde

NGNuk Office

07771 555 048

020 7783 4688

peter.ryde@ngnuk.org.uk

peter.ryde@ngnuk.org.uk

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Action 8 – 22/02/2007 – Confirm the status of the Terms of Reference covering interaction of NGNuk with NICC within NICC. These are agreed by the NGNuk Exec and are required to be endorsed by the NICC Exec in April	Peter Ryde Ongoing
Action 3 -29/03/2007 : BTW to respond in detail regarding the NGNuk paper prior to the NGNuk paper entering the Consult 21 process. Superseded by actions 1 and 2 of Exec 26th April	BTW Completed
Action 6 – 29/03/2207  : provide a definitive statement to NGNuk on what products and services will be interconnected where ( C-MSAN , F-MSAN, Metro and Core) Superseded by Action3 of Exec 26th April	BTW Completed
Action 9 – 29/03/2007 – Scope request regarding the validation of 4 QoS classes and pass to NICC Scope written and awaiting a meeting with NICC on 4th June	Peter Ryde Ongoing
Action 10 – 29/03/2007 - Propose a framework by which the requirements of CPs for multilateral vs. bilateral interconnect can be established. Superseded by PID activity	Andy  King Superseded
Action 11 -29/03/2007 – Develop a framework proposal for a high level industry wide approach to authentication Superseded by PID activity	Phil Male Superseded
Action 12 – 29/03/2007 -  Review the benefits of mandating the sharing of presence information across industry and the potential impact of making this chargeable or otherwise. Superseded by PID activity	Stuart Shutt Superseded
Action 13 – 29/03/2007 -  review the constitution as to any changes required to facilitate allowing non members to participate within the work streams ( when requested to do so by a work stream leader) Article 9 -  Working Groups is silent on non member participation as the implicit assumption is that work groups would be over subscribed. Article 4 infers that non members can be invited to present to Work Groups	Peter Ryde Completed
Action 14 – 29/03/2007 -  Develop guidance notes for work stream leaders regarding the use of non members within a work stream. The Exec requested that the guidance notes ensure that work stream leaders are aware that they should not favour non members in such a way that it might distort competition.	Peter Ryde Ongoing
Action 1 – 26/04/2007 – NGNuk requested any outline information that might be available on the impact of the additional interconnect sites on opex costs rather than just capex.	BTW Completed
Action 2 – 26/04/2007 – Commercial work group to respond to BTW by mid May regarding the additional information provided relating to Interconnect numbers and locations.	Commercial Work Group Completed
Action 3 – 26/04/2007 – Secretariat to arrange that Openreach attend to provide detail of where the Openreach products will interconnect	Secretariat Ongoing
Action 4 – 26/04/2007 - all members should comment on the Interconnect Requirements even if only to confirm that no comments would be submitted by 11th May. Awaiting responses from Opal, Kingston, Virgin and Vodafone ( meeting scheduled with Vodafone)	Exec Ongoing
Action 5 – 26/04/2007 – Secretariat to arrange a review of the two approaches to data and voice service spec scope with the authors. See Minutes above	Secretariat Completed
Action 6 – 26/04/2007 – Andy May to review existing action to reflect skepticism that CPs would provide adequate data and adjust as appropriate. To review with Phil Kirby prior to wider circulation. See Minutes above	Andy May Completed